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News Item: Site Updates - Aug 14, 2005

From: Cuer
Administrator
Posted: 2005-08-14 16:38:44

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Site Updates - August 14, 2005

New information for every weapon in the database was added in with this update.

The DPS of each weapon is listed on the individual weapon display. This is shown as Damage Per Second (DPS): on the item page for weapons. It is important to note that this is based on a simple calculation involving the Delay versus the Damage fields on the weapon; it does not include any of the effects on it. This is useful for some basic comparisons of weapons.

More new info can be found on weapons in the TP Per Hit: display. This shows how many TP (Tactical Points) are gained by each hit of the weapon.

Further information about the calculations used for these numbers can be found in the discussion of this news.

Items Added: Light of Vahzl, Caliginous Blade, Limit Breaker

Items Updated: Culverin +1, Culverin, Heavy Shell, Cannon Shell

NPCs Added: Hurr the Betrayer, Bou the Righteous, Stray Cloud

Mobs Added: Glyryvilu

Mobs Updated: Goblin Wolfman, Centurio XII-I, Maltha, Dune Widow, Father Frost, Mysticmaker Profblix

Quests Updated: Heaven Cent, A Smudge On One's Record, An Undying Pledge

Desynthesis Recipes Added: Long Boomerang

Recipes Updated: Gust Sword, Bone Arrow, Black Ink, Saltwater Aquarium, Ardent Jadeite, Adamantoise Soup, Moblumin Sheet, Shrimp Lantern

Items Drops Added: Scroll of Thunder III, Mercury, Wyrm Horn, Heavy Shell, Spider Web, Gold Beastcoin, Snoll Arm

From: Aurik Registered User Posted: 2005-08-14 18:41:11	Reply Quote
Hate to say it, but your TP-per-hit calculations for hand-to-hand weapons are necessarily going to be wrong, because of the varying base hand-to-hand delay.

From: Cuer
Administrator
Posted: 2005-08-14 18:55:45

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Here are the numbers used for the TP and DPS calculations; if you have further info or links of data that is different from these numbers, please let us know.

Damage Per Second (DPS) is a simple calculation of Damage versus Delay; these were changed to reflect the fact that 60 delay = 1 second, whereas previously it was calculated at 100 delay = 1 second.

TP Per Hit calculations are done based on the Delay of the weapon, as follows:
-- For weapon Delay of 000-179, TP is set at 5 per hit
-- For weapon Delay of 180-479, TP = [(Delay - 180) / 256] * 6 + 5
-- For weapon Delay of 480-999, TP = (Delay + 480) / 80

Further info to help keep these accurate is always appreciated.

From: Fuzzbox Guest Posted: 2005-08-15 09:36:34	Reply Quote
Also, although some of the Great Katanas are SAM/NIN usable, most are SAM only and the natural Store TP traits will further modify the TP gained (granted, SAM can use more than just Great Katanas but usually they will be using one)

From: GUEST Guest Posted: 2005-08-16 11:53:53	Reply Quote
what about the hand to hand weapons, they have always confused me. they dont have a dps.

From: Cuer
Administrator
Posted: 2005-08-16 13:54:24

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Quote from: Aurik
Hate to say it, but your TP-per-hit calculations for hand-to-hand weapons are necessarily going to be wrong, because of the varying base hand-to-hand delay.

That's an excellent point; that was removed from all the H2H weapons.

what about the hand to hand weapons, they have always confused me. they dont have a dps.

Those were removed, as mentioned above, because they aren't calculated the same way at all. The Monk job, who are the main ones that use Hand-to-Hand weapons, get a Martial Arts Job Trait multiple times as they level, that increases how quickly H2H weapons attack. Because of this, there is no real way to calculate DPS on these types of weapons. The Delay on these weapons is added to the base delay that they have when used; just pick the one with the lowest Delay, that gives the most damage for your level, and you should be fine. (There are other considerations, of course, such as whether you want to use one of the weapons that provide Accuracy, in exchange for a smaller amount of damage.)

From: RanDom_ErrOr Guest Posted: 2005-08-17 17:16:55	Reply Quote
now what about DPS on items like Joyuse and Kraken Club... will you factor the ability to attack 2-3 (or 8 with kraken) extra times, or just leave it as the base DPS since those are "extra hits" (and btw, do those extra hits give you full TP bonus or just 1% like multihit weapons skills do...) just curious about this aspect to a few special case weapons

From: Nynja Registered User Posted: 2005-08-17 19:04:02	Reply Quote
well then you cant calculate any DPS due to job traits like Double Attack, Triple Attack, Zanshin, Kick Attacks, etc etc...

From: Plight
Registered User
Posted: 2005-08-18 00:50:21

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Is it just me, or would job traits be irrelevant to the DPS? Assuming that the character equipping said weapon were to have the traits regardless of what they're using, and they wouldn't do the actual damage indicated by the DPS number; hence it would be more of a modifier for their base damage determined by STR, skill, etc.?
To state it a little clearer, wouldn't they have Martial Arts no matter which cesti they use?

From: Priran Guest Posted: 2005-08-19 01:46:28	Reply Quote
Martial Arts upgrades every 15 levels for Monk, so no. Also, the DPS for ammo is going to be off for the same reason H2H is.

From: Plight Registered User Posted: 2005-08-19 15:12:12	Reply Quote
Yes, I realize that; the point of my post was that how many Martial Arts traits a player has is not going to change when they swap out hand-to-hand weapons, so the weapons could be compared amongst themselves using an arbitrary number as the delay; it wouldn't be terribly significant as long as the additional delay was added onto a base delay that was the same for all hand-to-hand weapons.

From: Ichthyos
Registered User
Posted: 2005-08-19 16:52:27

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Quote from: RanDom_ErrOr
now what about DPS on items like Joyuse and Kraken Club... will you factor the ability to attack 2-3 (or 8 with kraken) extra times, or just leave it as the base DPS since those are "extra hits" (and btw, do those extra hits give you full TP bonus or just 1% like multihit weapons skills do...) just curious about this aspect to a few special case weapons

The extra hits on Joyeuse, Ridill, Kraken Club, Soboro Sukehiro, etc. all give full TP.

From: Ismarc Registered User Posted: 2005-08-20 13:20:04	Reply Quote
Regarding DPS for monks... The base damage done by a monk is calculated based on their H2H skill level. Their base weapon speed is based on their Martial Arts Skill. Because of this, it is physically impossible to give even an estimated DPS unless they calculated skill cap for every level and listed dps for each level, taking into account Martial Arts Skill.

From: Plight
Registered User
Posted: 2005-08-20 16:06:32

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Really, this is true for every job; you can't assume that the DPS listed is the damage you will actually do.

This is the part where common sense comes into play. The DPS listed is like a multiplier: multiply the DPS by the base damage you do with that type of weapon. That base damage number would take into account STR, skill level, job traits, etc. . . There is no way that a number listed on a weapon is magically going to be suited specifically for you.

The way it was, in my opinion, was just fine. The DPS is only applicable if you want to compare the weapons amongst weapons of the same type. This number is meant to be a resource, not the be-all, end-all amount of damage that you will do.

I'm sorry for being so blunt, but I really appreciated the DPS and would very much like to see it stay.

From: Cuer
Administrator
Posted: 2005-08-20 22:21:43

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I didn't really express this properly the first time around, so here goes again.

All regular full weapons use the basic Delay vs Damage formula for their "base DPS" calculation. As mentioned above, this doesn't work for H2H weapons at all; it would be entirely incorrect. We've always had the DPS calculation for all weapons except H2H weapons on the weapons list. There were two changes when this news item went in: we fixed the calculation, and we made it show up on the single-item display. That incorrectly initially showed up on the H2H weapons as well, so it was removed again on those weapons.

In theory, you can compare base weapon DPS of different types of weapons, for those that have the DPS listed. It's exactly the same for a Club as it is a Sword, as far as that calculation goes. That would not be the case if we used that particular formula for the H2H weapons, so we don't use it.

As mentioned in the initial news post, no effects are calculated into this. It doesn't matter whether it's Occasionally attacks two to three times or Additional Effect: Light Damage or a simple Strength addition -- none of that will be calculated in. And that is certainly the main limitation of these kind of numbers. They are useful for comparing against the other weapons in the game, but there are a multitude of variables that will change the actual damage your character does. This is just a tool in seeing at a glance what the base damage of one weapon is, compared to another.

From: NeoSuplex Guest Posted: 2005-10-06 04:59:10	Reply Quote
Well, then... Why not let H2H Weapons have +DPS? Just use the +Damage and +Delay in the same way you would with a standard Weapon. All you really want to do is separate it from other non-H2H type weapons anyway and calling it '+DPS' would accomplish this.

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News Item: Site Updates - Aug 14, 2005