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Final Fantasy XI Discussion Board	Discussion Boards -> General
Powerleveling: Is it wrong?

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From: FreakyNoodles
Guest
Posted: 2005-06-05 20:56:34

Topic Locked

In FFXI there is always a point in time when you are stuck or need help. When you want to get in a PT and earn exp, when you want to be teleported to save time from walking or avoid strong monsters, or when you sell your items to make money for that expensive new armor...No matter what the case there is always someone who needs help. Which raises the question of the act of PLing....So many people think it is wrong, or that it makes inexperenced players....So these are my questions to you.......
Do you think it is wrong to PL or be PLed?
If so, why? If not, why not?

I would also like to say that most people who say they have never been pled exclude the times when a high lvl "friend" has helped them complete a quest/mission and don't think that a few gil from a friend or being guided somewhere by a higher lvl person count as helping or PLing when almost everything in the game is made up of lvls.....

From: Phynix Guest Posted: 2005-06-05 21:43:32	Topic Locked
I like to say that there is a difference between having a power leveler, and having a "helper healer". :P Really though, I dont like having a person sit there to take hits with some infinite Hp (at least to the people hes helping). But having a guy come buy for a few fights just to help heal is a little different. Your Pt still ends up taking the damage, just gives some relief to the healers.

From: FreakyNoodles Guest Posted: 2005-06-06 20:32:51	Topic Locked
That was a very good response. Thank you. I agree with what you are saying. I thought I would have gotten more responses by now and lots of flames but I actually got someone with a brain. No one else has any thoughts on this matter?

From: Midnightcalm
Guest
Posted: 2005-06-07 09:10:50

Topic Locked

I don't mine PL'ers, but when the pt expects you not to tank eventhough it is your job, kinda annoys me a little. Lets say I lvl and since the PL'er is take most of the hits, I don't gain any evasion or shield skill(hardest to get up).

What I believe the job of the PL'er is to provide some relief on healing for the mages and increase chains some. But when the PL'er does your job(if tanking or other skill ups) you miss out on the part where you need to skill up.

You dont have to go back and skill up before you pt gain.

Mostly what buggs me is the people that rely on PL'er more than anything.**not saying everyone does, I have only had 2 pts like that**

From: Ichthyos
Registered User
Posted: 2005-06-07 11:13:25

Topic Locked

Well, in FFXI, things are often easier when your friends help you. The same is true in real life, is it not? I don't think that it's inherently wrong to be powerleveled, whether they're tanking for you or not. However, you also have a point that new players who are always powerleveled probably won't learn the game mechanics as fast as those who do it "the hard way". While this may create "inexperienced" players of higher levels, I think it's unavoidable. Some people will just always have less skill, be less observant, or react more slowly to things than others. FFXI is an MMORPG for a reason--so that you can get help when you need it from the people who are willing to give it.

Also, some of my fondest memories from way back when I was starting the game are those when someone more experienced helped me out--showing me the auction house (oh so there's a BETTER way of making gil than vendoring those fire crystals?!), throwing me a Protect before I headed out to Sarutabaruta, tanking my Ninja job flag leeches, teaching me yokodama, etc. FFXI wouldn't be the same without people helping others.

From: stinkypoo
Guest
Posted: 2005-06-07 14:01:56

Topic Locked

Half of my disdain for powerleveling comes from some of the people asking for it and how they go about asking. If someone is taking a 7th job through the dunes, I can see why they might like a powerlevel. Personally I still find lowbie parties, even with all the horrors that come with it, to be pretty fun/funny. It keeps you grounded and gives you a chance to meet new players and give them tips. However, when you get something like I did the other day...an elvaan (*cough* ;) WHM (...ironically...too lazy to do his own job? :P) who DOESN'T EVEN HAVE A SUB YET said "can u plvl us plz" (exact quote) when I ran past him...*shudder*. Then when I told him I couldn't because I was on my way to a PM mission, he offered a convincing "plz man plz plz" -_-. It gets even worse when people like him offer you 5k (no offense but laughauble amount) or 100k (no sub + willing to throw away 100k just because they can't be bothered to level normally = probably buys gil or something).

So yeah...depending on the person and situation, sometimes I have a certain disdain for it :P. Having someone nearby throw your party some cures once in a while is fine though.

From: Ichthyos Registered User Posted: 2005-06-07 22:45:21	Topic Locked
Heh, you do have a point. Someone in my LS was leveling another job in the mid-30s recently, started a party, invited people, and went to camp. When they got there, a member asked where the powerlevel was. Apparently that person had never leveled without a PL and didn't know that you could. O_O

From: Dora-from-pandy
Registered User
Posted: 2005-06-07 23:32:14

Topic Locked

Generally speaking I'm not a fan of PL. I don't recall ever asking for it and on more than one occassion I have turned down parties strictly because they had it. However, I will PL others in certain circumstances and will not turn down PL in other circumstances.

For example, I have a friend who's desire it is to level his Samurai to 75 for that he needs warrior and thief leveled to 37 for the standard sub jobs. I will not PL those jobs for him as he is taking them quite a ways and needs to learn how to play them. But, I have PLed his monk. He is leveling monk cause it is a standard subjob for a warrior (as is thief, nin, and rng but those he's done already or will do on his own). He does not like monk as a job and has no intentions of leveling it further now that it's done. Leveling monk in parties will not teach him anything that he doesn't already know, nor will it help him play his warrior better.

Another example would be in my linkshell. I am one of a small handful of people that DON'T have a job at 75. A significant number of people have more than one job that high and most people have at least 2 jobs with at least partial sets of AF. As a subjob for my main (rdm) I started leveling dark knight. I'd gotten it to 10 solo and hooked up with my LS for a dunes and qufim run. We had a pld, whm, rdm, sam, brd and myself.

The pld, has whm, rdm, blm, thf, and warrior at 75. True this is his first real straight tanking job, but he does have some experience in that field since he's taken ninja to 37 as well. The whm has a plethora of DD jobs at 70+ with thf, nin and ranger at 75. This isn't their first mage job as they'd taken rdm and blm to 37 so even now leveling whm they have main healed before. The rdm has pld and nin to 75, but he's taken whm up to 25 at least and blm to 17 and rdm isn't much more than a melee with back up healing at these lower levels. The sam has 75 brd, and blm. They've taken ranger and monk to AF levels so this isn't much different for them than what they've done. The brd has a 75 whm, they are used to playing a support role and even with PL a bards job doesn't change much. Myself, my highest is a 74 rdm, with leveled thief, war, whm and blm subs. All told I stood the most to lose from having a PL, but all I missed out on was having to voke off of a mage occassionaly and I've done that enough leveling warrior. The DD aspect of my job doesn't really change. In this case PL basically didn't detract at all from what we needed to learn cause we alrady knew it or we were learning it anyway.

From: Valyana Guest Posted: 2005-06-08 14:13:56	Topic Locked
Generally, I don't have a problem with PLing anyone's second+ job up to about 12-15, because they don't have any interesting job-specific abilities yet. I actively offer to PL people's THF job 9-12, as I still remember how painful it was to solo that stretch myself. Later on, it's more of a judgment call, as other posters have said.

From: Johny
Guest
Posted: 2005-06-08 15:37:03

Topic Locked

I don't like PLers. I won't disband a party cause someone passed by and saw a friend in PT and decided to help out.

But pey for a PL ? <No Thanks> ! Once, a leader in Yuhtunga Jungle asked everyone to give some gil for a PLer... I laughted. And disbanded.

I tend to say, excessive PLing is a major cause of n00bishness...

God... when yo meet a PLD40/WAR20 who doesn't know what a Skillchain means and such... maybe you went through your early levels a bit too fast, don't you think ?

From: Caessa
Guest
Posted: 2005-06-11 12:29:42

Topic Locked

Honestly I like being PLed. I have played every job to 20+ and after awhile of leveling in the dunes it gets tedious. I really enjoy the help. Now most people would think that after all that I'd be a bit noobish, but I have found that I am average at all the jobs. I understand how they are all meant to be played and I playthem accordingly.

So in some situations PLing is a bad thing because of people who refuse to learn to play their job first. I say once you know how to play your job properly and are good at it, then you can get all the PLing you want. Until you can make a pt and get good exp without a PL, dont use a PL.

On a side note for those un skillful in making pt's consider this.

You need the best healer 1(WHM no exceptions)
You need the best DD 1(BLM, although you MIGHT get
by with a RDM in earlier lvls)
You need a tank 1(PLD or NIN and if not go WAR)
You need other DD's 2-3(RNG, DRK, SAM, DRG, etc. they
are all good choises but the RNG
does the most DMG by far,
although the RNG can hardly take
a hit so its your choice)
If you cand find that
last DD try a BRD, they
enhance well...everything
and reduce downtime. Hope that helps

So yeah just get a nice foundation in the game then think about a PL. Or at least wait till dieing or lack of exp make u want to quit the game b4 getting a PL.

From: Licoge
Guest
Posted: 2005-06-13 04:37:33

Topic Locked

This is what Johny meant.
Your PT setup recommendation is only a classic party setup and not the best one. There are much more, btw. you don't need to have a whm everytime.
Personally i think PL is the worst thing ever even if you PL your advanced jobs. When you start a new job even as an expirienced player in other jobs, you are still a newby in the new job. And why do you play this game at all?
I play it to have fun at every level. Make friends, go static with them on low level jobs and you don't have to worry about bad parties.
There is only 1 exception when i'd accept a PL help: if you want to get a friend to your level for your static party.

From: who knows Guest Posted: 2005-06-13 08:02:54	Topic Locked
Im sick of ppl who need a pl to do anything, it just leads to a lazy party and every thing seems to go wrong if the pl leaves, i was in a party yesterday who had a pl but didnt think it was a good idea to get a whm as the pl would do all the healing. soon enough pl left and party disbanded as no one seemed to want to continue without a pl and didnt want to level the way its ment to be.

From: Fin
Guest
Posted: 2005-06-14 18:24:17

Topic Locked

I PL responsibly. When I PL newer players, I consider myself an instructor as well, talking with them and teaching what I can about the position. I have also Pled groups that could not function on thier own. I will usuall help them until they are able to form a workable pt and sometimes even help recruit (never know which of my friends is bored and wanting to level that 20 pld they haven't played in awhile, lol).

I agree with the view that PLing CAN make lazy or "n00bish" players. I also feel it is rude to presume anything from someone outside your pt. We DO NOT have to raise you. Nor just cause we are not doing anything do we have to PL.

(*Note: I have gotten off a choco in the middle of a zone to raise, so don't think I am one of "those" people.)

From: Lurka
Guest
Posted: 2005-06-15 13:35:35

Topic Locked

A lot of times i`ll get invited to a party and if they`re good, fine. But if things are rough and, say, they pull a wight back to my lv.19-20 pt in qufim; I won`t hesitate to pop in my linkshell a "anyone bored and wanna come help me keep my sanity?"

Another thing, the other day I was levelling summoner and blackmage in qufim in Pugil alley. My lv.75 pld friend was tehre mainly to keep me company. If we got a link he`d grab it, or if a banshee aggro`d he`d pull it. If someone died he`d raise, and if we pulled something alil harder than we could handle, he might help out on cures alil bit. But other than that, he sat against the wall and talked to me.

From: Ozulus
Registered User
Posted: 2005-06-20 07:27:08

Topic Locked

I only think PL is useful in the Dunes....mostly is cause ppl don't have either enough mp (mages) or aren't comfortable yet with their new job... so having a FRIEND to help out is great... i never payed for a PL... when one of us (from LS) is in the Dunes there's always somebody willing to help out a bit tho only to reduce our downtime... not to tank... tank needs to learn how to tank, healer needs to learn how to heal, drk needs to learn not to die (i h8 drks that voke 1st for sata and turn on Last Resort and Souleater... jeez).... well what i mean is that a PL is fine (mostly only in the dunes) but just to help a little...

From: Murga
Registered User
Posted: 2005-06-20 14:36:33

Topic Locked

I just got my PLD to level 50 the other day and went out to get the items for G1. We first went to Crawlers Nest and began to kill exorays. I had a 64WHM with me and some taru thf started cussing at shouting that we were cheating ???’es. I was amazed and shocked, especially when he said that I was getting xp by him killing them. I then see a /say that says MP @ 620/740, which he says “ok I will pull then.” Now remember that this was in CN not the dunes, and if you need a PL’er to function in CN, then I do not want to be in that PT!

Also, as a PLD I can not stand to be PL’ed. As another poster stated, getting hit is the only way to raise that Shield or parrying skill. I joined a PT in Garlaige and it wasn’t the best PT in the world, but we were getting some xp. Then the thf disbands and we get a new one and he shows up with a 70RDM. I told them that I would not stay if the RDM helped at all! The first battle the RDM started curing and telling us to let him take the hits, so I said thanks for the PT and disbanded. I would have got level 50 that night, but felt that I would have been cheated of the pride of getting 50 myself, in a normal PT.

From: Gasco
Guest
Posted: 2005-06-20 22:07:23

Topic Locked

I don't mind PL's that much, as long as they don't interfere too much. They can help keep the chains going while the WHM rests or compensate for a couple of less than best players in your PT (ie. tanks that have gimped gear, pullers that enjoy linking the whole area, or a Galka WHM with no MP boost...).

Kinda off topic, but funny. We had a quasi-PL once - a RDM that was just about 10 lvls above us in CN. His job was to keep the tank and his friend in good health while the RDM in the party healed everyone else. Our party pulled a scorpion and were doing fine, then there was a 1 sec lag and next thing we know, our quasi-PL starts running away with the scorpion chasing after him! The weirder thing was that he somehow made his way UP the cliff from where the sacks were, so we couldn't give chase. He got pwned right before reaching zone... >.>

From: Freakynoodles
Guest
Posted: 2005-06-21 16:11:25

Topic Locked

Quote from: Ichthyos
Well, in FFXI, things are often easier when your friends help you. The same is true in real life, is it not? I don't think that it's inherently wrong to be powerleveled, whether they're tanking for you or not. However, you also have a point that new players who are always powerleveled probably won't learn the game mechanics as fast as those who do it "the hard way". While this may create "inexperienced" players of higher levels, I think it's unavoidable. Some people will just always have less skill, be less observant, or react more slowly to things than others. FFXI is an MMORPG for a reason--so that you can get help when you need it from the people who are willing to give it.

Also, some of my fondest memories from way back when I was starting the game are those when someone more experienced helped me out--showing me the auction house (oh so there's a BETTER way of making gil than vendoring those fire crystals?!), throwing me a Protect before I headed out to Sarutabaruta, tanking my Ninja job flag leeches, teaching me yokodama, etc. FFXI wouldn't be the same without people helping others.

I like this responce very much! ty for including your past experiences and I completly agree w/ your explaination of player experience.

From: Freakynoodles
Guest
Posted: 2005-06-21 16:25:00

Topic Locked

Quote from: stinkypoo
Half of my disdain for powerleveling comes from some of the people asking for it and how they go about asking. If someone is taking a 7th job through the dunes, I can see why they might like a powerlevel. Personally I still find lowbie parties, even with all the horrors that come with it, to be pretty fun/funny. It keeps you grounded and gives you a chance to meet new players and give them tips. However, when you get something like I did the other day...an elvaan (*cough* ;) WHM (...ironically...too lazy to do his own job? :P) who DOESN'T EVEN HAVE A SUB YET said "can u plvl us plz" (exact quote) when I ran past him...*shudder*. Then when I told him I couldn't because I was on my way to a PM mission, he offered a convincing "plz man plz plz" -_-. It gets even worse when people like him offer you 5k (no offense but laughauble amount) or 100k (no sub + willing to throw away 100k just because they can't be bothered to level normally = probably buys gil or something).

So yeah...depending on the person and situation, sometimes I have a certain disdain for it :P. Having someone nearby throw your party some cures once in a while is fine though.

I like what you have said about that. Yes, it is very annoying when ppl keep begging for a PL. I also hate they way he asked...I hate it when ppl use shortened words and wrong abreviations, like plvl, it is so much easier just to type PL *sigh* then again I just like to have things the way I want :p. I have asked for a PL on a few occasions because I am a RDM and some idiots who somehow got leader often think that 1 lvl 14 RDM (or 2 BLMs w/ RDM sub)can keep an entire pt alive fighting pugils...If you are gonna ask for something like PLing you should at least be willing to pay for it and have a good reason(and use decent spelling). I like your somewhat negative experience, no offence, I mean because it lets me see it from your side.

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Powerleveling: Is it wrong?